Curse

Iteicea Destroidium · Aug 08, 2005, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Ya I was on vacation this last week...and had just enough money gathered to finish the UW monk solo build, the runes and such. I get back today and my chances of finishing that are shattered...the prices soared from 10k to 64k...craziness

aB- · Aug 08, 2005, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksci

The only thing about Hoarding is that. IT only works if the person decides to buy the stuff at the unrealistically high price.

Player A Hoards items
Player B Knows that an item is only worth 10K

Player A decides to sell his items for 20K
Player B doesn't want to wait and decides to buy the item at 20K

Here player B is a dumbass.

Point is, that if someone decides to Hoard items. He can only profit from it, if people decide to buy items at the unrealistically high price. Obvious in the D2 example, hoarding is working.
Therefore, the players are dumbasses, and thus, personally you deserve it.

The hoarding will stop once people stop buying at the ridiculously high prices.
But no... you players want now now now.

EDIT: I just saw black dye on the trader being sold at it's last price of 9270gp. Of course hes out of stock now.

Let me further your example making player B a "smart" person.

Player A decides to sell his items for 20K
Player B decides to wait and look for a better price

Player B finds next to no one with what he is looking for because Player A has hoarded the item he is looking for

Player B can hope for the drop, search for many hours and hours to find one person that has the item he needs, or buy from player A who has the item he needs at a higher price

Waiting isn't always going to work. If someone is TRULY hoarding one item, very few other people are going to have that item. You could search for hours trying to find a person with the item or buy it at a more expensive rate. If you have the money to throw around, chances are you will buy from the hoarder (player A).

If you tell me it won't be that hard to find the item that player A has hoarded from another person, then it isn't a true hoarding situation.

Saerden · Aug 08, 2005, 08:13 AM // 08:13

The interesting part is that monk runes skyrocket on Euroservers (10x in one week, and i sold my sup smiting for 2k the 1 week ago...). I doubt its because of UW farming builds.... maybe people are servertrading stuff using the int. districts?

Or does Europe get favor on every working day but not on weekends?

Ellington · Aug 08, 2005, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

It is time for a revolution about the price hike in everything.

Agreed.

Rise up against the tyrant merchant elite! The people have nothing to lose but their chains.

banishd · Aug 08, 2005, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Too bad gold in this game is useless, since its so easy to come by
i have about 900k in my storage from sigils and i have nothing to spend it on =\ i might try and buy out silver dye or something latre when im bored

Darksci · Aug 08, 2005, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by aB-

Let me further your example making player B a "smart" person.

Player A decides to sell his items for 20K
Player B decides to wait and look for a better price

Player B finds next to no one with what he is looking for because Player A has hoarded the item he is looking for

Player B can hope for the drop, search for many hours and hours to find one person that has the item he needs, or buy from player A who has the item he needs at a higher price

Waiting isn't always going to work. If someone is TRULY hoarding one item, very few other people are going to have that item. You could search for hours trying to find a person with the item or buy it at a more expensive rate. If you have the money to throw around, chances are you will buy from the hoarder (player A).

If you tell me it won't be that hard to find the item that player A has hoarded from another person, then it isn't a true hoarding situation.

You still haven't gotten it have you?

The point i'm trying to make is that no one has an infinite amount of wealth. No one person could just continueily buy out every single item. Not unless he cheated.

The only way this works is that people are so impatient.

In this case Black dyes were hoarded or something.

Week 1: All Black dyes hoarded buy Player A who buys them for 10K
Week 2: Black dyes drop. Player A buys them again
Week 3: Player A decides to sell them for 20K. No one buys it for 20K
Week 4: Player A still selling, and buying for 15K. No one buys it for 20K.
Week 5: Player A cannot continue to buyout black dyes since he hasn't got 'infinite' wealth to do so.
Week 6: Black dyes come back to market from creature drops.

In this situation the hoarder doesn't win since the players are smart and decide to be patient.

OF course this doesnt happen in the game, because they are impatient.
HENCE you DESERVE to be hoarded.

EDIT:
IF you've done economics study, which i have, you'll know that Hoarding only works on the short run - say weeks.
In the long run (months) the hoarder will run out of money since there is still supply of the item into the market.
Runes and Dyes always have supply into the market, even if its 1 dye per hour.

Orochim4ru · Aug 08, 2005, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Runes and Dyes always have supply into the market, even if its 1 dye per hour.

They may always have supply, but that doesn't mean that the income for the hoarder has to be subpar. Even if the price of dyes increase, if the hoarder is making 500k per hour off 20 bots running ember light farming missions, then he honestly doesn't care.

Darksci · Aug 08, 2005, 12:48 PM // 12:48

THERE YOU GO - HES CHEATING.
The Hoarder is cheating and hence THIS HAS NOTHING to do with the people itself, nor Solo farming etc.

You've clearly stated that this problem has nothing to do with normal people just farming. Its a bot problem, hence cheating.

So the only real solution to this, is ANet to find and destroy the accounts of the bots. I do hope ANet actually wipes and destroys the CD-Key of those people who bot.

They should add somekind of random pictureword every time you enter a map, and the person needs to type in the word which he sees. Much like the way certain registration sites deal with automated account makers.
I'd prefer to see something like this... Meh i'm gonna write something on this.

the dragon king · Aug 08, 2005, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by banishd

Too bad gold in this game is useless, since its so easy to come by
i have about 900k in my storage from sigils and i have nothing to spend it on =\ i might try and buy out silver dye or something latre when im bored

well if u do that ill take the silver dye

if u dont want it

twicky_kid · Aug 08, 2005, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksci

You still haven't gotten it have you?

The point i'm trying to make is that no one has an infinite amount of wealth. No one person could just continueily buy out every single item. Not unless he cheated.

you still don't understand how that is working. you buy from merchants to raise the price. you sink a couple 100 thousand into one item that you know people will buy no matter what: shards, ecto, hides, cloth, dyes, runes, ect. while you are buying the merchant's price is steadly going up. people gauge their price on the merchants. so you sell all those items back to players for just under the merchant price. you make a profit on each item you bought except the last 2 or 3.

its not one person using the hording method its thousands. i made a post on how to abuse the merchants when the system was implemented and since have seen many more money making post abusing the merchant's "broken" system.

its broken because it doesn't adjust to the "real" market. its some guy at anet hitting the reset button when prices get too high. sometimes i've seen the merchants selling prices way higher than the buying. they don't reset both at the same time. just like yesterday when it was reset tanned hides where 150g/10 but i could sell them for 95g/10. they can say its automated and adjust to the market but that's a load of crap or things like that wouldn't ever happen.

Darksci · Aug 08, 2005, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

you still don't understand how that is working. you buy from merchants to raise the price. you sink a couple 100 thousand into one item that you know people will buy no matter what: shards, ecto, hides, cloth, dyes, runes, ect. while you are buying the merchant's price is steadly going up. people gauge their price on the merchants. so you sell all those items back to players for just under the merchant price. you make a profit on each item you bought except the last 2 or 3.

its not one person using the hording method its thousands. i made a post on how to abuse the merchants when the system was implemented and since have seen many more money making post abusing the merchant's "broken" system.

its broken because it doesn't adjust to the "real" market. its some guy at anet hitting the reset button when prices get too high. sometimes i've seen the merchants selling prices way higher than the buying. they don't reset both at the same time. just like yesterday when it was reset tanned hides where 150g/10 but i could sell them for 95g/10. they can say its automated and adjust to the market but that's a load of crap or things like that wouldn't ever happen.

So if one day the merchant's selling price for ecto is like 20K. People will start buying it for 19K?
Yeah right. EVeryone knows that ecto is worth 10K (Although i sell in bulk for 12K each). But i can see where your going where everyone dictates their prices on the merchants. But thats just plain stupid. You should know how much the prices of the things are. I know that ecto and black dye shouldn't be more than 15K.

twicky_kid · Aug 08, 2005, 03:05 PM // 15:05

they shouldn't be but as long as the merchant will give you a price it will always be this way. personally i bank on the common materials more than anything.

the merchant is up to 21k on ecto so people will start to price their items competively with merchants. i foresee them going up to 15k soon if merchants prices hold steady. ecto is hard to tell with all the farmers pumping ecto into market that's why i don't invest in that item.

dyes are always a solid investment seeing as there is always a demand for them.

this is what i mean by hording. today i woke up and checked the buy and sell prices for common and rare material and noticed cloth at 250g/10 and selling for 120g/10. so i spammed everywhere buying them for 10g each then sold them back to merchants sold about 3500 cloths to merchant in less than 30 minutes and made a nice profit from doing basicly nothing.

MSecorsky · Aug 08, 2005, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Hmm... methinks the monsters need Natures Renewal to cast.

Darksci · Aug 08, 2005, 03:33 PM // 15:33

The behemoths cast that (since they are rangers).

twicky_kid · Aug 08, 2005, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Hmm... methinks the monsters need Natures Renewal to cast.

that would throw pve balance off just like NR is doing to pvp

all they need to do is make the -75 life not stack with the same runes because you need 5 runes to make the build work

1 less rune would effectivly kill the build while leaving the monsters and skills untouched

i've also noticed i can't get the cities of ascalon quest anymore. i even made a new char and the guy won't give me the quest.

MSecorsky · Aug 08, 2005, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

that would throw pve balance off just like NR is doing to pvp

all they need to do is make the -75 life not stack with the same runes because you need 5 runes to make the build work

1 less rune would effectivly kill the build while leaving the monsters and skills untouched

So let it! Crap, I can run through most groups in PvE now, let em shake things up.

Actually, I'd like to see more intelligent monsters with a larger skill base that they can cast based upon who they're up against. Make it tough enough so that to grind is to accomplish.

But that's just me.

twicky_kid · Aug 08, 2005, 03:55 PM // 15:55

nt i'm not going to play a game that is based around 1 skill. you either use it or plan to play against it. that is just dumb and requires no thought at all. you would be killing the strategy not making it.

Onito · Aug 08, 2005, 03:57 PM // 15:57

oh i rember when i bought Sup Healing for just some plat, now its like 20k or something :S

asdar · Aug 08, 2005, 04:11 PM // 16:11

I think there's a lot of complaining over a non-problem.

There's so many things that everyone is overlooking. The first and main is that all of these items are luxury items. In no way do you need any of them to play the game as effectively as the next person.

The only near exception to that is runes but even at the merchant prices it's not at all out of control.

This is the greatest change in a long time for farmers. Go out and play the game, then go to Lions Arch and sell runes. 3 weeks ago it wasn't worth it. Now it's easily worth it.

If you're like me and never want to buy or sell from a real person hang onto those runes and trade/give them to guild members and friends. That's what we do.

Look at the rune with the absolute highest price. If you want it it's a struggle but no more than 15k armor, without the materials. Meanwhile there's not one area of the game where you won't be able to play and play well with the exception of the monk UW build where it's important to have 16 protection on a protection monk. That's the only one.

Warrior runes have always been high, absorption and Vigor have only for about a weeks time been even reasonable. They're no higher now than they were before the rune traders were instituted.

I just don't see the problem at all. I know if I started a new character I could get him right up there in level and playing in any PvE area in the game in no time at all. I've done it very recently with my warrior and never bought a single thing for him.

twicky_kid · Aug 08, 2005, 04:21 PM // 16:21

imagine you were a new guy with nothing and come into the current market with nerfed drops. would you want to continue playing with the current prices?

personally i don't care about the prices myself because i know how to make money besides farming. merchants are the biggest money makers not farming just people don't know how to use it.

i know what you mean because i buy major vigor instead of sup (wow a big 9 life). i buy max dmg 15% weapons from collectors then buy upgrades cost me less than 10k to equal a weapon you bought for 300k. buy shields from collectors because you simply can't beat the 45 hp 2 absoption with max def. buy wands and foci from collectors. they are max stats already so why try to find it in purple or gold. i don't think any is going to be saying OMG you killed me with that gold weapon.

btw i found all my runes never buy from traders unless i made a new char that i need to lvl and i haven't found the rune yet. i've found 2 sup absorption, all my sup monks, sup str, sup axe. its not hard to find them if you know where to look. 1 sup absorption came from a lvl 8 monster and the other was a lvl 15 so lvl of enemies doesn't make it a better drop.

i think people are stuck in this rut from other games that it has to be "found" to be better. only thing that is better found is staffs because they can come with 3 mods.